Guys,
Our upside-down (USD) rule requires that cars drop away from the FRC test block when placed on it and the block is held upside-down. This block has been made so that the track does not flex at all when a car with magnets is placed on it.
Over time the rails on this block have become slightly magnetized so that a car which drops away from a random piece of Scalextric Sport track may not necessarily drop away from the official test block. We have to have a standard test for this so that all cars are measured on an even playing field. When the test block was built, I placed a line of tape midway across the block with the intention of ensuring consistent test measurements for all cars by positioning the cars such that the centreline between front and rear wheels line up with this line. I also painted direction chevrons to indicate which way the car should be pointing.
To ensure fairness and consistency for everyone, going forward, all tests will be done by placing the car as intended (with the line midway between front and rear wheels and the car pointing in the direction of the arrows) and doing the test. Any time either the front or rear wheels drop away from the test block, the car has passed the test. Cars will not be rolled back and forth on the block to help them locate a spot where they drop away. If a car does not drop away from the block it will be tested facing the opposite direction. If it still fails the test, it must be adjusted until it passes the test. This adjustment must not be made by raising the braid. The car must be tested as it will race.
Following these guidelines, all cars will be on an equal footing with respect to the USD rule.
Gordon
Testing cars for USD compliance
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Hello Gordon,gordon wrote:To ensure fairness and consistency for everyone, going forward, all tests will be done by placing the car as intended (with the line midway between front and rear wheels and the car pointing in the direction of the arrows) and doing the test. Cars will not be rolled back and forth on the block to help them locate a spot where they drop away. If a car does not drop away from the block it must be adjusted until it passes the test. This adjustment must not be made by raising the braid. The car must be tested as it will race.
Following these guidelines, all cars will be on an equal footing with respect to the USD rule.
Hope you don't mind me mentioning and all because I presume this explanation (above) making a FRC well informed USD rule even clearer is about the sponsored McLaren F1GTR car I used in the RGT (RR222) third race ... correct?
If this is the case, I kind of remebered you (the head honcho) allowing the said car as is where is to race. So it's so strange to see from you now such a detailed statement (pic included) and wondering who, what or where could of guided you to do this.
Just felt I should clear the air with this topic concerning a RGT (generally raced) car that was provided to me for one race.
Your longest rooted FRC member
Luke
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Luke, you're partly right about your sponsored car being a part of the decision to clarify how the USD rule is to be checked and you're 100% correct about my allowing it to race, however the same situation has come up before and I feel that it needs addressing. I am not looking backwards, but rather, forwards. The rule will be applied as described above at all future FRC events where the USD rule is used unless and until a better (fairer) method is devised.
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Gordon,
You made this situation a Keep Calm and understanding moment. Clearing the air of any CO2 (carbon dioxide) substances
Must mention though ~ it's a clever way (aka regulation creep?) rolling a car back and forth versus a slight shake for car dropping away on the USD test block.
Have a great God given day,
Luke
You made this situation a Keep Calm and understanding moment. Clearing the air of any CO2 (carbon dioxide) substances
Must mention though ~ it's a clever way (aka regulation creep?) rolling a car back and forth versus a slight shake for car dropping away on the USD test block.
Have a great God given day,
Luke
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Hi guys in response to the method used for USD testing i do agree with everything said so far and wish to add. 1 The block is magnatised in a particular area of the metal strip, therefore moving the car to another position on the block that is not magnatised should not be a problem since our testing at home is with a track that is not magnatised. 2 The inline cars are more balanced than the S W cars therefore that extra magnetic pull keeps the front of the car up. 3 However the S W cars are fine with the fulcrom effect by leaning downwards and turning on the axle.To me the point was falling off the block at any point and not a magnetic part of the block only, this should be considered as an option as the configuration is different some in line and some s w we may also have a w also.. 4 In some instances the SW cars lean off the block but does not fall off because the body work keeps them from falling off, this also can be viewd as an infringment on falling off the block, but if that type of car is placed far back on the block it will fall off, with all development and methods of testing it will take these types of feedback to come up with regs that are fair to the sport as a whole. Thanks for considering .
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Ramesh,Luke wrote:Must mention though ~ it's a clever way (aka regulation creep?) rolling a car back and forth versus a slight shake for car dropping away on the USD test block.
I think you just silenced the audience with your (4 points) response. Your written explanation is very very effective ... You made it clear the test block (USD rule) can just do so much and no more and the circumstances with (No.4 point) SW motor mount cars - is a perfect example.
So wondering (above) if - rolling a car back and forth was regulation creep ..?
Tells me, you are not only a professor but also the say so with all around slotcar tuning ..!
Have a GR8 day,
Luke
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Thanks for the input Ram. You've raised some valid concerns/points, so let me address each one.
Some track pieces will often have slightly magnetized rails, including those used by any of us to test our cars, especially if we always use the same section to do the test. I know that the official block will tend to have more because of its purpose, but it is the same for everyone - a standard. It is like using a magnet marshal... each magnet marshal will give slightly different readings. We only have one magnet marshal and this makes it difficult for car builders to get in the ball park with downforce settings when working on cars away from FRC, which is why we introduced the USD rule. At least with the USD rule cars can get within the ball park and then be fine-tuned at the track using the official block. If every car is tested in the same position, the only variation is the location of the magnet(s) in the car and most will tend to be in the same general location for the specific class. By always using the same position for all cars, car builders have a consistent way to check their various cars and set them up accordingly.RameshB wrote:1 The block is magnatised in a particular area of the metal strip, therefore moving the car to another position on the block that is not magnatised should not be a problem since our testing at home is with a track that is not magnatised.
If we use the official block as described, the test is the same for everyone. If you choose an inline setup, based on the comment above you already have a more balanced car, presumably an advantage over a less balanced car. Regardless of setup, the rule requires that the car still drop away from the block.RameshB wrote:2 The inline cars are more balanced than the S W cars therefore that extra magnetic pull keeps the front of the car up.
One location on the block for all cars is the only way to ensure equal testing of all cars. Why should one person's car drop away by just releasing the car and another person's car require rolling back and forth across the block to find a spot where it falls away? This obviously means that the first car has less downforce than the latter. Is it fair to have one car with more downforce than the other and both pass the test by manipulating the method of testing in favour of the one with greater downforce? We might as well go back to Luke's original suggestion that we shake the block so that cars fall off. If so, I'll make sure that I shake it real hard for my cars.RameshB wrote:3 However the S W cars are fine with the fulcrom effect by leaning downwards and turning on the axle.To me the point was falling off the block at any point and not a magnetic part of the block only, this should be considered as an option as the configuration is different some in line and some s w we may also have a w also.
Some people reading my post may not have noticed that I used the term "drop away" or "fall away" and not "drop off" or "fall off". All that matters is that the car not stick to the block. Once it falls away, it has passed the test, even if it doesn't drop off the block. Any time either the front or rear wheels drop away from the test block, the car has passed the test. I have added this last clarification (in bold type) to the compliance definition at the beginning of this topic (the original post).RameshB wrote:4 In some instances the SW cars lean off the block but does not fall off because the body work keeps them from falling off, this also can be viewd as an infringment on falling off the block, but if that type of car is placed far back on the block it will fall off, with all development and methods of testing it will take these types of feedback to come up with regs that are fair to the sport as a whole. Thanks for considering .
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Not sure what the problem is here?
I think that the rule is a fair one with little need for further explanation. A rule is a rule!
The only point that I consider valid is the magnetisation of the test block over time which could be frustrating after having used your own block with the desired results of the car falling away.
Can we not demagnetise the test block from time to time? or simply keep this difference in mind and build our cars with a little "leeway" prior to race day?
In the end I am convinced that the closer we are to a set standard or rule the more competitive we are. Different strokes for different folks will never work!
I think that the rule is a fair one with little need for further explanation. A rule is a rule!
The only point that I consider valid is the magnetisation of the test block over time which could be frustrating after having used your own block with the desired results of the car falling away.
Can we not demagnetise the test block from time to time? or simply keep this difference in mind and build our cars with a little "leeway" prior to race day?
In the end I am convinced that the closer we are to a set standard or rule the more competitive we are. Different strokes for different folks will never work!
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Lots of influential statements concerning the USD rule (for a minute adjustment) and have to mention - take care these change(s) doesn't cramp this easy going pastime with an iron ruler.
My early morning thoughts with this topic.
Luke
My early morning thoughts with this topic.
Luke
Re: Testing cars for USD compliance
Guys,
This is getting a bit ridiculous. Let me put it straight.
Cars will be placed on the block as described at the top of this post. If they drop away, they pass the test. If they don't drop away, they fail the test.
That's it.
If you don't like it then don't race.
Gordon
This is getting a bit ridiculous. Let me put it straight.
Cars will be placed on the block as described at the top of this post. If they drop away, they pass the test. If they don't drop away, they fail the test.
That's it.
If you don't like it then don't race.
Gordon