Gordon,
I understand your concerns, however did you check the specs on the older minis? They carry a15k FF motor which is no comparison to the 18k FF. Even the 18k mabuchi motor cannot compete with the 18k FF. That means minis will not be competitive it will be like my MG. The new minis are not faster by any means. You can see by the times. We run 21.5k in the F1 to compete with the 18k FF. So why not allow them. For me personally I just bought this mini for this class and now it is not in the class anymore. It is difficult to keep setting up cars, especially since I have to set up for two tracks. I now have two cars for Historic which are either not competitive MG or New Mini not legal.
I thought the idea was to have the cars all competitive?
I remembered you were commenting about the closest of the qualifying times. The new minis was in no way above its class.
Just my thoughts.
Arden
Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Hey Arden - every cloud has a silver lining... Look on the bright side of it, you now have a Mod Prod car 
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Which will be like my MG!
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Arden,
Please don't think I'm picking on you (or Luke). This decision has nothing to do with competitiveness or non-competitiveness. It is only about the intention of the class - a class for historic, non-GT, road-going saloon and sports cars roughly from the '60s and '70s. The concession for the BMW Minis was made to accommodate one or two FRC drivers who at the time asked for their BMW Minis to be allowed in the class and from day one this was listed as an interim measure. Its basically the same reason that we don't run F1 cars with LMP, American Muscle with GT, Porsche's in the Lambo Series or modern LMP cars in Vintage Sports. If you like we can change the deadline date... I just thought that mid-year was a good cut-off time, but I have no problem going further into the year.
Regarding the BMC Minis and MGBs, I personally see no reason why they should not be allowed to run 18,000 RPM motors. In fact maybe we should revisit the suggestion that all cars with FC130 motors in HS should be allowed to run the Slot.It 21,500 RPM motors as is the case with VS and F1.
Gordon
Please don't think I'm picking on you (or Luke). This decision has nothing to do with competitiveness or non-competitiveness. It is only about the intention of the class - a class for historic, non-GT, road-going saloon and sports cars roughly from the '60s and '70s. The concession for the BMW Minis was made to accommodate one or two FRC drivers who at the time asked for their BMW Minis to be allowed in the class and from day one this was listed as an interim measure. Its basically the same reason that we don't run F1 cars with LMP, American Muscle with GT, Porsche's in the Lambo Series or modern LMP cars in Vintage Sports. If you like we can change the deadline date... I just thought that mid-year was a good cut-off time, but I have no problem going further into the year.
Regarding the BMC Minis and MGBs, I personally see no reason why they should not be allowed to run 18,000 RPM motors. In fact maybe we should revisit the suggestion that all cars with FC130 motors in HS should be allowed to run the Slot.It 21,500 RPM motors as is the case with VS and F1.
Gordon
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
As part of FRC's foreign base, I keep up with the forum and view the racing reports and all new developments and suggestions with great interest (I've even considered sending a bag of ice down for race nights!!! 
)
When HS was announced as a class for last week's session I looked at the eligible cars and actually wondered how long you guys were going to keep BMW Minis in HS, with all the true Mini goodness available. Arden's points are well taken. Stock motor spec on the Cooper Minis would be non-competitive with the 18K FF. But they do take well to a transplant if it were to be permitted in the Class specs. And they are fun to chip!
But I think one of the important reasons for having classes is, as Gordon espouses in the first topic on the FRC rules and regulations page, that this is model racing, modeled after 1:1 racing. We don't see BMW Minis competing against other historic saloons in 1:1 - they don't fit performance-wise or style-wise. I think FRC gave BMW Minis a home in HS because of the Mini name and the fact that their spec and body style did not fit well with any of the other classes at that time. From an aesthetic viewpoint I welcome their removal from HS because they are a fit in Mod Prod, and they are so radically different in appearance from the historic Minis. The size/appearance differences are as mind-boggling in 1:32 as in 1:1.
Arden, you are right that the idea is to make the cars competitive. That's what the Class specs do. But my feeling is that the Classes are named for body style, because that's important to us as lovers of cars and racing. Otherwise we might be designating Classes based on ranges of RPM and magnetic downforce ("Next week: 18-22K motors with 200-250gm DF, and 25-32K motors with 225-320gm DF....."- How it go look? 
)
That said, I do feel for you, because cars and setup time don't come cheap!
My thoughts from 1700 miles away,
rrc
)When HS was announced as a class for last week's session I looked at the eligible cars and actually wondered how long you guys were going to keep BMW Minis in HS, with all the true Mini goodness available. Arden's points are well taken. Stock motor spec on the Cooper Minis would be non-competitive with the 18K FF. But they do take well to a transplant if it were to be permitted in the Class specs. And they are fun to chip!
- mini chip.JPG (104.46 KiB) Viewed 5350 times
- mini fleet.JPG (155.63 KiB) Viewed 5350 times
)That said, I do feel for you, because cars and setup time don't come cheap!
My thoughts from 1700 miles away,
rrc
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Hi Ray,
nice to hear from you . Sweet collection of Minis you have there (and true Minis at that as the new ones , to me, are only Mini in name, particularly the big 4 door Countryman, larger than some SUVs). When you're sending the ice, please include a bottle or two of duty-free 1824 rum ! My thoughts on the motors are that the Minis and MGBs were designed and sold with 16k motors so that is how they should be raced in this stock class. I'm sure most racers would have been aware of the motor fitted prior to purchase. In my case, I was fully aware that the MGB was probably not going to be as fast as the Escorts and Cortinas but decided to buy it anyway as I just loved it. Turns out that I actually won some races with it and while not the fastest car in class, it is still competitive.
So when we seein' yuh ?
Steve
nice to hear from you . Sweet collection of Minis you have there (and true Minis at that as the new ones , to me, are only Mini in name, particularly the big 4 door Countryman, larger than some SUVs). When you're sending the ice, please include a bottle or two of duty-free 1824 rum ! My thoughts on the motors are that the Minis and MGBs were designed and sold with 16k motors so that is how they should be raced in this stock class. I'm sure most racers would have been aware of the motor fitted prior to purchase. In my case, I was fully aware that the MGB was probably not going to be as fast as the Escorts and Cortinas but decided to buy it anyway as I just loved it. Turns out that I actually won some races with it and while not the fastest car in class, it is still competitive.
So when we seein' yuh ?
Steve
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Guys,
Glad to see everyone participating.
I agree with Steve since it is a stock class. The motors should remain stock. The other point is if you change out the motors the minis will be far superior to all the other cars in the class with an 18k FF and a 2.5mm magnet.
Gordon I know you are not picking on us. I understand the class clearly.
My car was only purchased this year for the class and now to retire it and have to set up another car is time consuming at the moment. I really do make the sacrifice to race at FRC every week and one have one car knocked out after only two meetings just puts me back a step. If we can allow them until later this year or year end will be nice so I don't drive up for one race.
Ray should we call you MiniRay.
Thanks for you input.
Arden
Glad to see everyone participating.
I agree with Steve since it is a stock class. The motors should remain stock. The other point is if you change out the motors the minis will be far superior to all the other cars in the class with an 18k FF and a 2.5mm magnet.
Gordon I know you are not picking on us. I understand the class clearly.
My car was only purchased this year for the class and now to retire it and have to set up another car is time consuming at the moment. I really do make the sacrifice to race at FRC every week and one have one car knocked out after only two meetings just puts me back a step. If we can allow them until later this year or year end will be nice so I don't drive up for one race.
Ray should we call you MiniRay.
Thanks for you input.
Arden
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Arden, I understand your point and I feel it's right to give longer notice of the rule change so I've changed the date to the end of 2013.
I also appreciate the effort you make to attend every event and don't in any way wish to discourage you or anyone else from helping keep FRC the wonderful thing that it is.
Gordon
I also appreciate the effort you make to attend every event and don't in any way wish to discourage you or anyone else from helping keep FRC the wonderful thing that it is.
Gordon
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Ray, love the Minis. Thanks for showing how you chipped the little BMC ones. Look forward to seeing you back at FRC!
Gordon
Gordon
Re: Departure of new bmw minis in Historic Class.
Gordon,
Thanks for your consideration.
Appreciated.
Arden
Thanks for your consideration.
Appreciated.
Arden