Fairways Racing Complex Forum

Hi Guys,

FRC will be open for practice, testing and racing from 7:00 PM this Thursday (13th March) for our Group F classes: Group 5 Sports Car - 5 races @ 30 laps, F1 - 5 races @ 40 laps. Please bring your cars ready to go. Here's the usual schedule:

• 8:00 PM - Qualifying followed by racing. Drivers not ready when called to grid will be replaced by any standby drivers who are ready.
• After racing - Packing up and liming/old talk (but not too late!).

You can see all the class regulations here and the general racing regulations here.

Here are the specific G5SC and F1 class regs (blue text indicates any changes for 2014):

Group 5 Sports Cars (1970-1975)
For cars classified by the FIA as Group 5 Sports Cars between 1970 and 1975.

• Body: Group 5 Sports Cars (1970-1975) only. See Eligable Cars below. Body must comply with General item 2. Windows may not be tinted - interior must be visible.
• Chassis: Original chassis for the particular model, but may be modified.
• Minimum Ground Clearance: 1.0 mm / 0.040".
• Interior: Full interior as standard for the particular model, however this may be altered if necessary, but only to the extent required to install digital chip. Must comply with General item 3.
• Digital Chip: Free.
• Motor: 26,000 RPM or lower, based on manufacturer's specifications.
• Gearing: Free.
• Motor Pod (where applicable): Free.
• Magnets: Maximum Magnet Marshal downforce of 200 gms (107% = 214 gms). This is currently under review.
• Wheels: Free.
• Axles: Free.
• Tyres: Free.
• Guide Flag: Free.

• Eligible cars:
  
  • Alfa Romeo 33/3
  • Ferrari 312P
  • Ferrari 512
  • Chevron B19
  • Chevron B21
  • Lola T70 Mk III
  • Mirage GR8
  • Matra MS670
  • Porsche 917
  • McLaren M8D (this is technically a Can-Am car but was built and raced during the appropriate period for this class)
  The list will be expanded if and when other eligible models appear.
  ____________________________________________________________________________________________
  
  Formula 1 (F1)
  
  • Body: Must be modeled after a car which competes in F1 racing from 2000 onwards and must comply with General item 2. Windscreen may not be tinted - interior must be visible.
  • Chassis: Standard for the particular model.
  • Interior: Free but must comply with General item 3.
  • Digital Chip: Scalextric F1 or Scalextric DPR F1.
  • Motor: Standard silver-can 18,000 RPM FF motors must be used in cars designed for FF motors. Standard silver-can 18,000 RPM or Slot.It 21,500 RPM FC130 motors may be used in cars designed for FC130 motors.
  • Gearing: Standard for the particular model.
  • Motor Pod (where applicable): Standard for the particular model.
  • Magnets: A single bar magnet (2mm maximum thickness) located in the standard position and button magnet (2mm maximum thickness) can be used to improve downforce. These magnets must be located in different parts of the chassis (they cannot be located in the same place).
  • Wheels: Standard for the particular model.
  • Axles: Standard for the particular model.
  • Tyres: Free.
  • Guide Flag: Free.

Please note the following two items from the General section of the class regulations:

• Where a maximum downforce limit is specified, this will be checked using the FRC-based Magnet Marshal. When placed on the Magnet Marshal only the car's guide flag and tyres may make contact with the Magnet Marshal. This is a requirement for accurate downforce readings.
• Magnet Marshal readings up to 107% of the stipulated maximum are considered legal.

Remember, directly after each G5SC car qualifies and races consider it in "parc ferme" - do not remove it from the track table until the ground clearance and downforce are checked.

Don't forget to bring along some refreshments.

Ice Brigade: Luke B.

Reality Checks

Group 5 Sports Car:

Mario Andretti's Ferrari 512S leads the field on the opening lap of the 1970 Sebring 12Hours endurance. He would eventually win but only after switching to his team's other 512S when his gearbox failed during the nighttime hours.

F1:

Jenson Button checks out Michael Schumacher's Mercedes in his McLaren's mirror while negotiating a quick left-hander in the wet.

See you on the circuit...
Gordon

Hi guys, our trip was fun had a very nice time , looking foward for thur , bye Ram

Glad you had a nice holiday Ramesh. Look forward to seeing you and the boys on Thursday to do battle at FRC

Today is FRC's 37th. F1 event (first for 2014) and out of the 36 races gone (2009-2013) it has yield, out of 24 drivers who competed so far... 13 champions

I believe today, after looking at the F1 racing pic with JB & MS in their cars - Think F1 racing should be like the Group 5 Sports Cars (1970-1975) class... Cars raced by the era.

Example: F1 cars raced - choose from: 2000-2004, 2005-2009 & 2010 - present day cars

The regs could read like this...

Body: Must be modeled after a car which competes in F1 racing... Either 2000/2004 - 2005/2009 - 2010 - present day cars.
Motor: Standard FF motors silver-can 18K RPM or the standard FC130 motors silver-can 18K RPM must be used in cars designed chassis.

The Slot.It (FC130) 21K RPM motor will be an option if we want to race this amount of power with all 6 cars.

Thoughts on this later okay

Luke

Which era do you suggest we look at Luke?

Gordon,

If this idea is interesting to you

I would say, we can go for the F1 cars with the FF (stock) motors only.

In this way (having a wider playing field) we can still have the use of many cars because these (Scalextric) FF motors designed chassis started 2005 to present day.

So to answer your question - Have two eras together: 2005-2009 & 2010 - present day cars

FRC regs will/could now read:

Formula One (F1 - 2005 to present day cars)

Body: Must be modeled after a car which competes in F1 racing from 2005 to present day cars.
Motor: The standard (silver-can 18K RPM) FF motors must be used in cars designed chassis.

How this sounding

Luke

Luke, I quite like your suggestion. I know that this was discussed informally to some extent last night, with pros and cons being put forth by yourself (pro) and Arden (con). Arden felt that the FF-motored cars are too fragile despite his FC-130 Jordan actually suffering impact issues which spoiled its potential on the night and one of Ramesh's similar-motored McLarens also retiring because of impact damage, so I'm not sure how strong his argument really is. Response Arden?

I personally believe that the F1 cars are ALL too fragile and that because of how fast they are now going, this makes them even more susceptible to damage. What about going back to box-stock (Scalextric-brand only) F1 cars?

On another point, I also believe that we as car owners need to pay more attention to the written class rules and prepare our cars according to these requirements. I've often used the term "regulation creep" to describe how the written intent of the rules slowly change over time by everyone pushing the boundaries when preparing their cars. As everyone is aware I now take the time to include each classes' rules in FRC event announcements. Maybe we should have pre-qualifying inspection of all cars to ensure that we nip this in the bud and keep all the cars in line with the rules. This will allow drivers to be aware of any infringements before racing and give them the opportunity to either make the necessary changes, or race a different car which conforms.

Guys, please give your thoughts on these points.

Hi all,
sorry I was not there after the racing for the discussion on F1 cars as raced at FRC.
As one of the persons inspecting the winning F1 car, I noticed at the time that this car (Ramesh's) was running two bar magnets , which is against the rules. It was pointed out that this would need to be corrected for the next event. In thinking further about this however, I now believe that due to the nature of this infringement, the points accumulated by this particular car be forfeited in fairness to the other drivers whose cars were not the beneficiaries of such additional downforce. I know that in the past minor infractions have been allowed in other classes but the nature of these were such that they did not increase performance (a missing windscreen or back glass for example) but I do think that an extra bar magnet in an F1 car would provided had a significant benefit.
What are your thoughts ?

Guys,

Steve, Agreed we have regulations to work with anyone infringing on the rules should be penalized. All rules are precise, hence the reason for the meeting on setting up the Class Groupings and regulations.

With regards to the F1 Decision. I really believe this should have been brought up at the meeting, if it was not, leave it as is until next year. I see comments on class grouping suggestion etc. I honestly believe we need to pay more time to working on cars than on trying to think about changing class grouping or regulations.
I really wonder sometimes why all these changes and brilliant ideas.
I must say congratulation to Steve on breaking the G5 record. This clearly shows what we should be doing and not worrying about these brilliant changes and ideas.

I believe the newer cars are to fragile and costly to maintain. Guys the F1 in reality should be the fastest class. Using the older F1 car is the better way to go.

New Model Cars FF
1. Fragile.
2. Higher maintenance.
3. Sealed Motor.
4. Weaker Guide Blade
5. Narrow Rear Axle.
6. Step Magnet in Most.

Old Style Cars.

1. Robust.
2. Less Maintenance.
3. 21.5k Slot it Motor. We use this motor in other classes as such everyone may have easier access to them.
4. Better guide blade and easier to modify,
5. These motor are open can. Less heat, They can be cleaned and lubricated.
6. Wider Rear Axle.
7. 2mm Bar Magnet.

We all know these point and still think. Think why am I not running an Older F1?

With regards to my Jordan I only 1/2 finished my car for racing that evening. While racing at Fosters corner someone crashed directly in front of me and I ran into the car. My car had no screw at the back because I could not find my wing. The axle did not come out even though I thought it did. It was the guide pin that go pulled down a bit and was not making contact with the shoe.When I checked the car it was ok. . The other time my magnet popped out. I did not have any damages.

When we discussed the rules and class groupings this should stand for at least one year, unless we really missed something. This show that we did really thought the class groupings and regulations through. If we are thinking or looking at this after not even completing 1 cycle something is drastically wrong. Please note I am not saying we should not make changes., however I believe the effort used to think about these changes should be put to better use.

If we all work on our cars we will get better and faster. Look at the results Steve new G5 Time. Gordon your F1 car worked a lot better than previously. I feel like a broken record and guys are just bent on thinking than actually doing!

I don't mean to offend anyone, but really....

Hats Off to you Steve!

Arden

We did have a great evening of racing last night with very close exciting times for all especially in G5 CLASS , Steve and I had side by side fun, so did Gordon and Arden ,and thats what it is all about congrats to Steve for breaking the group 5 time,and also to Luke for taking on the challenge of preparing his ferrari to run against those alfas. concerning the ilegability of my fi car , i absolutely take no offence and humbly apologise for not paying closer attention, i do appreciate all considerations given in the past and i am happy to abide with what ever final decision is taken ,because in no way i wish to create any sense of un fair play , in the spirit of good sportsmanship the intent of infringement was surely non intentional as this was not even my primary car, but my secondary car used after an incident ,i do appreciate all comments thanks Ramesh