Fairways Racing Complex Forum

Guys,

Steve, O'Brie and myself have been having an email back and forth discussion on two topics which involve three classes, Historic Saloon, American Pony Car and the proposed (unofficial) Scratch-Built class.

Historic Saloon (HS)

Background: All along, HS has been a class with very limited modifications allowed. Until recently, all of these almost stock slot cars had press-on wheels and axle gears, however this has changed with the introduction of the latest SRC Capris. These Capris have set-screw wheels and gears like higher-end slot cars such as Slot.It and NSR. One of the problems we've seen with press-on wheels and gears is that they often do not go back on straight if removed, usually necessary for things like tyre-truing. Also, because of the knurled axle ends, the axle bearings have play that produces axle slop. Bottom line is that cars with press-on rear axle components will never perform as well as those with a properly set-up rear end that set-screw and related components provide, all other things being equal.

Proposals:

1. We involve all racers in a vote to either allow non-standard rear ends on cars ** or ** to ban cars which do not have press-fit rear axle gear and wheels. This can be done through a forum poll if necessary.
2. If the decision is to allow non-standard rear ends, wheels must remain the same diameter as the original and look as close to original as possible, whether through inserts or the design of the actual wheel itself.
3. These changes to be effective from 2019.

American Pony Car (APC)

Background: Like HS, APC does not allow changing of the rear axle assembly and suffers from the same problems with press-on rear axle assemblies.

Proposals:

1. Same as item 1 for HS.
2. If the decision is to allow non-standard rear ends, wheels must be either 12mm or 13mm in diameter (excluding the ridge) and look as close to original as possible, whether through inserts or the design of the actual wheel itself. The reason for the 12mm or 13mm diameter is because the Scalextric cars for the ’66-'72 period have the former, the Pioneer cars the latter. By the way, this will eliminate Arden’s Camaro which, although it has a period-correct 1969 body, it is a model of a popular car that was upgraded in 1987 (the Big Red Camaro), hence the more modern and larger wheels. In this configuration the car would not be APC-legal. Arden would have to revert it to 12mm or 13mm wheels, front and rear.
3. These changes to be effective from 2019.

Scratch-Built (SB)

Background: Our initial proposed requirements for this unofficial class allow almost any chassis, once it is not specifically designed for the particular car (unless completely scratch-built for the body). This means that kit-bash cars are allowed. Some of us feel that this is not in keeping with the true spirit of a fully scratch-built class.

Proposals:

1. We allow cars to run to the proposed rules for 2018.
2. Allow only scratch-built chassis from 2019.

Please let everyone know your thoughts on these points in the comments below.

Gordon

Hi guys , i have learnt a lot from racing at FRC and we have all become very close in our racing, I have always been in agreement of changeable components in all classes to make racing user friendly, so tyres and rims can be as close to look alike and all other moving parts can be changed , this would make it more fun for all of us.Thanks again.

Here's what the rules would look like for HS and APC if we agree to allow non-standard rear ends:

Historic Saloon (HS)
For slot models of cars based on production saloon/sedan and road going sports cars from the 1960s and 1970s, but excluding cars eligible for the American Pony Car class.

• Period: 1960-1979.
• Body: Windows may not be tinted - interior must be visible. Maximum body width of 60 mm.
• Chassis: Original for the particular model, but may be modified provided guide flag position and axle positions remain unaltered. Cars with angle-winder chassis or angle-winder pods are prohibited.
• Interior: Full interior as standard for the particular model, however this may be altered if necessary, but only to the extent required to install digital chip.
• Motor: Any non-high-downforce motor not exceeding 18,000 RPM, based on manufacturer's specifications.
• Gearing: Standard for the particular model.
• Magnets: USD rule. All magnets must be positioned ahead of centreline of the distance between guide flag pivot point and rear axle (see diagram below).
• Wheels: Standard for the particular model.
• Wheels: Standard for the particular model or may be substituted, but must be same diameter as the originals. Wheels or inserts that match or are close to original wheel design are required.
• Axles: Standard for the particular model.

American Pony Car (APC)
For slot models of American "Pony Cars" that took place in the Trans-Am series between 1966 and 1972. (Standard and rules-compliant modified Scalextric, Pioneer, Carrera and other manufacturer Pony Cars are legal for this class, but must meet the magnet requirements below.)

• Period: 1966-1972.
• Body: Must be modeled after American "Pony Cars" that took place in the Trans-Am series 1966-1972. Fender modifications not allowed. Wheels and tyres must not be visible when viewing body from above. Windows may not be tinted - interior must be visible.
• Chassis: Original for the particular model, but may be modified provided guide flag position and axle positions remain unaltered.
• Interior: Full interior as standard for the particular model, however this may be altered if necessary, but only to the extent required to install digital chip.
• Motor: Any non-high-downforce motor not exceeding 21,500 RPM, based on manufacturer's specifications.
• Gearing: Standard axle gear for the particular model. Pinion gear may be changed.
• Motor Pod (where applicable): Standard for the particular model.
• Magnets: USD rule. All magnets must be positioned ahead of centreline of the distance between guide flag pivot point and rear axle (see diagram under Historic Saloon above).
• Wheels: Standard for the particular model.
• Wheels: Standard for the particular model or may be substituted, but must be no less than 12mm diameter and no greater than 13mm diameter, excluding tyre ridge. Wheels or inserts that match or are close to original wheel design are required.
• Axles: Standard for the particular model.
• Tyres: Type of tyre is free. Front tyre minimum diameter: 17mm on wheel. Rear tyre minimum diameter: 19mm on wheel. Rear tyre maximum tread width: 8mm (excluding sidewall).

I agree with all the proposals, ie. for HS, involve all concerned in a forum poll and for the other two classes (Pony Car and Scratch-build) accept proposals as presented.
Steve

The rules seem simple enough.
I'm in support of the three classes.

All,

I will work with the rules as they change if I can afford.

Please be reminded that that south team that comes to race also races in our south track. That means we build cars for both tracks. Cars and parts are not cheap. Every time there something that looks as someone has an advantage rules seem to be not efficient in doing its job.
Rules should be made and stand for a minimum of two years. At the end of 7 to 8 months everyone should be up to speed and make the racing more enjoyable for all.
If you think there is a rule that is really ineffective by all means it should be changed.



I enjoy the time I spend with you all and really treasure your friendship.
I will also like to spend more time in building and getting better but as soon as I start to get better there come the new rule.

Arden

Arden,

First of all, I don't have to tell you how much we appreciate that you guys travel all the way from south to make our racing how good it is. Without you all, FRC would be a lot less exciting and challenging and have very few racers. We always look forward to the great challenge posed by all your cars and you have continually raised the bar and given us something to aim for.

At the end of the day however, there is still only a small core of just six to eight drivers who race at FRC, so like you, I feel that it should not be a problem to make rule changes as many times and as often as necessary, once everyone agrees with them. This would be in the interest of everyone.

One of the things that makes the racing so good is having it fair to all. When a specific model of car has a definite advantage, this will discourage those who do not have that particular car if nothing can be done with their own car to match the specs of that car. In the context of the proposed change to the Historic Saloon class for 2019 and in fact in any class, I feel that it is not fair to allow a component or series of components that improve performance to be available to some drivers and not to others (unless they also purchase the same type of car). It can be argued that anyone can put aside their current cars and go out and buy a car which comes standard with those components, but I believe that a simple change which allows similar components to be used across the board for the specific class is a much more reasonable and less costly proposal. In the case of Historic Saloon, for the rest of 2018 some drivers will be continuing to race with the same press-on rear ends with their inherent problems and possible performance issues while those with the new SRC Capris will not have those issues, but that's fine. The proposal is to change the class rules to allow the same type of rear axle components for everyone who so chooses from 2019. I don't believe that is unreasonable.

The proposed change for American Pony Car class is basically the same as the one for Historic Saloon, not because of any reason like the SRC Capris, but for the fact that these press-on rear ends are often create issues, as mentioned in the post above. The only difference is that instead of stipulating that the wheels must be the same size as the originals for the car in question, it requires that wheels be either 12mm or 13mm in diameter and there is a reason for this. The racing that the class is intended to represent is the over 2000cc class of the Trans Am series for the period 1966 to 1972, the heyday of Trans Am racing in the '60s and '70s (the Trans Am Pony Cars). At the time, these cars wheels wheels were 15" in diameter. Scalextric has reproduced these as 12mm and Pioneer as 13mm. Because this is a historic class it was intended that the cars would be true representations of these pony cars, including the wheels.

In the case of your Big Red Camaro, to comply with this requirement it would only mean replacing the wheels with 12mm or 13mm wheels. This can be done by either installing replacement Scalextric wheels front and rear or by going for the option to use 12mm or 13mm set-screw wheels at the rear and Scalextric wheels at the front. If you see this as a problem, I personally have no issue with you continuing to race the car indefinitely with the wheels it came with as an exception and I'm sure others will agree with this. This will be an exception for you alone with this one model of car (I know you have a few of this model, so you can race any one, but the standard version of this car will not be legal for anyone else).

Gordon

I think that the one yard stick that i think ALL competitive sport is measured is “the level playing field”.
From athletes and drugs to The Audi Quattro all wheel drive debu, rules change to maintain that leveling.
The same applies to our beloved sport, SRC pulled a slick move with the Capris, plane and simple! So we have a rule change that is the least expensive and the fairest to all to help level things a bit. Is it a pain in the butt that the rules keep changing....heck yeh!!! But the tech involved with slot cars is massively advanced compared to the “old Days” so we have innovations that affect everyone almost every week. We can’t stay static with the rules just because it is inconvient to change them. I support the changes.

Hi Gordon,
re interiors, I think that the rule should be amended as follows: "Full interior as standard .....but only to the extent required to install digital chip and/or to clear motor". This might be necessary in the case of a motor being substituted by one of a type different from the original.
Steve

Hi Gordon,
now looking at the 2019 rules and there is one adjustment I think we could consider and this is to allow a change of front rim in Historic Saloon as well (as in Muscle Car), with the same stipulations as the rear ones.
Steve