LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

All things related to racing at FRC
Post Reply
steveaca
Posts: 1574
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by steveaca »

Hi Gordon,
I have a GT car set up for this (would need to check downforce on Magnet Marshal though) and would be willing to try it at our next event. The problem I have though, is that I don't have any rubber tyres to fit it. I would consider going with Luke's suggestion as far as using silicones for both classes. Your other suggestions for these two special classes seem fine to me.
Steve
User avatar
gordon
Site Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Contact:

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by gordon »

Luke, I think that with your suggestion, properly set-up GT-E cars will be as fast as LMP-E cars. I'm not too keen on the rubber tyres as it is not always easy to tell the difference between them and silicones. We need to have a definite difference in downforce and in straight line speed (RPM). Besides contributing to the desired 1 sec lap time difference, this reflects what actually happens in 1/1 racing - the LMP cars have more downforce and speed than the GT cars.
User avatar
gordon
Site Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Contact:

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by gordon »

Perhaps we can have an additional requirement of a minimum total car weight for both classes. This can be the same for both classes. It will prevent someone building a super-light car with the required minimum downforce that runs faster than everyone else.
User avatar
gordon
Site Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Contact:

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by gordon »

OK, here are my latest regulation suggestions:
  • Body: LMP and GT models based on real cars that raced from 1982 onwards (for LMP, Group C onwards). Windows may be tinted so as not to reveal the cockpit.
  • Chassis: Free.
  • Minimum Ground Clearance: 1.0 mm / 0.040 in.
  • Interior: Free but must comply with General item 3.
  • Digital Chip: Free.
  • Motor - GT-E: Up to 21,500 RPM.
  • Motor - LMP-E: Up to 25,000 RPM.
  • Gearing: Free.
  • Motor Pod (where applicable): Free.
  • Magnets - GT-E: Maximum Magnet Marshal downforce of 200 gms.
  • Magnets - LMP-E: Maximum Magnet Marshal downforce of 275 gms.
  • Wheels: Free.
  • Axles: Free.
  • Tyres: Free.
  • Guide Flag: Free.
  • Car Minimum Weight: 90 gm.
Luke
Posts: 2245
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by Luke »

Good Morning Gordon,

It's looking all good to a point ... and did you realize next month is a full year now we're trying at this special event ..?

Not sure if it's a good or bad thing but nonetheless ~ its still interesting trying to get it off and running 8-)

I looked over your latest suggestion thoroughly and (still) think - cars must not be able to magnetically adhere to a standard track piece upside down.

Here's why ... and see how fast these cars (both classes) might be going with suggested maximum mag. (200 & 275 gms) downforce.

My fully tested Scalextric Chev C6R GT-E car:
  • • The Chev C6R car with a 18K rpm motor and bar mag 1.5mm/120 gm downforce ...... Rubber tyres - BLT 7.9 sec.
Now for an approximate Best Lap Time with my FRC experience (overall guess) with suggested specs:
  • • The Chev C6R car with a 21.5K rpm motor and bar mag 2mm/200 gm downforce ...... Silicone tyres - BLT 4.9 sec.
Look how it could be a full 3 seconds off - which also means LMP-E cars will be going even faster ...

So instead of a flat all-out racing event, how about a steering one :?:

Hope I made my thinking as brief as possible & I strongly believe this method (in green) will be much easier to handle all round the day of the event.

Luke
User avatar
gordon
Site Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Contact:

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by gordon »

Luke, I agree with you that the cars should be slower rather than faster, but if we use the upside down rule, the only differential in the classes will be the the motors and I believe that is not enough. What if we lower the downforce limits for both classes but still giving the LMP-E cars a higher limit than the GT-E cars? We can run some tests to determine the best downforce to help achieve slower lap times and the 1 sec minimum difference between the two classes.

I really feel that we should set up some cars and do some actual tests to get concrete feedback.

BTW, the 90 gm minimum weight for all cars will have a significant impact on performance. Heavier cars will have less acceleration and braking and will de-slot easier at a given downforce limit.
User avatar
gordon
Site Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Contact:

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by gordon »

I'm going to set up an LMP-E car meeting all the listed requirements but with 200gm downforce. I'll also set up a GT-E car with 150gm downforce and we'll see how the two compare.
steveaca
Posts: 1574
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by steveaca »

Hi all,
I like Gordon's latest suggestion allowing the GT-E cars to run silicone tyres. For this class, I'd really prefer the Magnet Marshal checking of magnetic downforce rather than using the Upside Down rule.My car is now fully compliant with these proposed regulations (subject to Magnet Marshal verification). I estimate GT-E times (for my car at least) in the range of 6.4 to 6.6 seconds. This is a far cry from Luke's estimate of his Corvette's 4.9 seconds though.
Steve
Luke
Posts: 2245
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by Luke »

GG,

I presume these 2 car meetings are a tuning/race-testing timetable and all happening on a certain day or separate days :?:

Steve,

You have me wondering what kind of GT-E car you are working on and with your estimated lap times of 6.4 to 6.6 seconds ... is that with a 18K rpm motor :?:

Luke
Luke
Posts: 2245
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: LMP-E/GT-E endurance event proposal

Post by Luke »

GN Gordon and Steve,

You'll know, with all this planning and (the much needed) ideas to test these 2 type cars to help fine-tune the regs to make it all user friendly ...

We must remember this is the easy part with these 6 main slotcar factors.
  • GT-E Car - 21.5K rpm motors - 150gm downforce - Weight 90gm - 1mm Ground Clearance - 6.5 sec. suggested lap times.
    LMP-E Car - 25K rpm motors - 200gm downforce - Weight 90gm - 1mm Ground Clearance - 5.5 sec. suggested lap times.


The tough part is (even though I feel it will be very favourable) afterwards - getting 12 persons/racers to make up/choose the 6 Teams (X 2 drivers) to compete in this special endurance (maybe the 200th. milestone) event.

Luke
Post Reply